On Tuesday, 12 November in Maribor and on Thursday, 14 November in Ljubljana you are invited to the premiere of Treatise, choreographed by Milan Tomašik for Krakow Dance Theatre. Barbra Drnač spoke with Milan for the Parada plesa portal.
Dear Milan, hello — this November will be very much in the sign of your choreographic and dance work. Twice over, in fact: you are coming to the Stara Elektrarna in Ljubljana and to the 2nd Gymnasium in Maribor reinforced by the Krakow Dance Theatre team, with Treatise, the piece you choreographed for them, which premiered in Poland in mid-March. To say it is a contemporary dance performance would probably be a very thin description. Could you explain the theme and the style of the piece a little better?
The central idea is the graphic score Treatise by Cornelius Cardew, created between 1963 and 1967. The graphic ‘score’ was primarily intended for musicians, as Cardew was himself a musician and composer. When I first saw this score, I knew it offered enormous choreographic potential, as it is quite extensive: 193 pages of symbols, lines and various geometric and abstract shapes. I decided on Treatise during my master’s studies at Alma Mater Europaea. On the one hand, the studies gave me enough time for thorough research, which allowed me to test what was possible, relevant and intriguing for choreographic work, since it was the first time I had worked with a graphic score in my choreography. The result of the studies is a combination of improvised material together with set material, both at the level of creating movement material and of compositional solutions. In commissioned work I would of course not dare to leave things open, as I did not know the dancers or the team; besides, there is usually not much time available for invitations abroad. That is why Treatise for Krakow Dance Theatre is entirely different from the study, master’s version. The starting point and the inspiration are the same — but they are two different results.
In rehearsal for Treatise. (photo: Grzesiek Mart)
What drew you so strongly to graphic notation that you made a dance performance out of it?
First of all, whether it was even possible to create a dance performance interesting and intriguing enough not only for me but also for the dancers and the creative team. Those who know my way of working know that I largely proceed from individual proposals, and the chemistry between the dancers is crucial, since it largely determines the movement language of the piece. The second challenge is choreographic: how literal or how abstract should I be? On the one hand illustrativeness does not interest me (it can become predictable and therefore boring), and on the other hand being so abstract that no one from the outside recognises the score would, for me, be an extremely arrogant and disrespectful attitude towards the work itself, which is unacceptable. In his handbook, which he later wrote reluctantly under pressure from the publisher to explain the interpretation of his music, Cardew emphasises two things: ‘to be musical’ and ‘precision of judgement’. I have no particular trouble with musicality (laughs), so throughout the creative process I kept thinking and reflecting on whether I was doing it right — both at the level of micro-composition, that is smaller compositional forms, and of larger scenes.
Treatise (photo: Grzesiek Mart)
So did your movement follow the notation, or the other way round?
It did indeed. Everything came out of the notation. The way of working, the creation of movement material and the compositional procedures all developed out of the score, though in different ways. Some scenes came out of a single specific page — for example, page 183 is very specific and recognisable. Elsewhere I combined several pages into one scene.
In rehearsal for Treatise. (photo: Grzesiek Mart)
We are used to seeing you more or less as a soloist in performances, but this time a company will be on stage without you. How different is your ‘relationship’ to choreography you create for yourself and to choreography for a company?
In my view that is not quite true. In recent years I have mostly choreographed for others, though it is true that this happens abroad, so my choreographic work may be less noticed in Slovenia. For the past six years I have enjoyed choreographing for others, as it allows me to focus entirely on the work itself. Not only from a practical point of view, since others take care of the production, but above all from an artistic one. Decisions, solutions, the composition of the piece itself, reflection on the process and everything surrounding the creative process go faster, because I see what is happening in front of my eyes as it happens. That is quite different from performances in which I was both author and performer, which I often did in the past but which no longer interests me. The only exception is solo performances, which are a category of their own.
Roke, ki me niso nikoli poznale (photo: Darja Štravs Tisu)
After Ljubljana and Maribor, two more performances await us at Cankarjev dom. After some time, Roke, ki me nikoli niso poznale is returning. Will the solo piece created together with Charlie Brittain be any different from the premiere in February this year?
No, it is exactly the same performance. The long break was down to how busy I was and to coordinating dates between the team, the production and the co-producer. Everyone who has not yet caught the premiere run is warmly invited on 20 and 21 November at Cankarjev dom in Ljubljana.
Roke, ki me niso nikoli poznale (photo: Darja Štravs Tisu)
Our reviewer Daliborka Podboj wrote, among other things: ‘… and the curve of the past connects anew with the curve of the present and the future’. How do you as an artist experience this transience of time?
I experience the transience of time most strongly as a dancer and performer, since it is presence that shapes the experience of time. In my experience time runs faster with a greater presence of the performer — and slower when that presence is less pronounced. Choreographing is about the precise alignment of different performative elements that influence how the audience experiences the content.
In rehearsal for Treatise. (photo: Grzesiek Mart)
And while we are on the subject of time: the year is slowly running out. What would your summary, or your balance sheet in ‘accounting’ jargon, be?
An extremely intense period that began in the post-pandemic time is coming to a close. A great deal has happened in it: creating choreographies, performances, appearances, collaborations and teaching at various institutions; last year I even held a one-third post at SVŠGUGL. I am grateful for all these new experiences. I look forward to new challenges and collaborations, and I am already planning projects for the next three years — but this time in the hope of focusing even more on the things that mean a lot to me.
All the best, and see you.
Thank you, likewise!